Ableton Link and Group Switching

edited April 3 in Development Blog
Hi everyone,

Someone mentioned to me that GTL was falling out of "sync", or more correctly phase, when switching between groups when using Ableton Link. This actually isn't a bug, just the way GTL works. Groups are currently switched after the longest loop in the playing group, the consequence of this is that GTL can fall out of phase with other link apps.

So my question is, should GTL keep in phase with other Link apps when switching between groups? This will mean that some groups may not reach the end of a full cycle and be cut short. e.g A 6 bar group over a 4 bar quantum would switch after 4 bars not 6.

One option is to make group switching follow GTL's user defined 'Quantum' setting. We would be able to turn this behaviour on and off for group switching.

What does everyone think, any ideas/suggestions appreciated?

Comments

  • I think it makes sense with engage straight link on/off. I think Ableton has something similar at its quantize launch options...
  • I think it makes sense with engage straight link on/off. I think Ableton has something similar at its quantize launch options...
    Thanks @dubbylabby, so are you saying GTL should have an option to turn Link on for group switching?
    i.e "Groups follow Link Quantum" Yes/No
  • edited March 31
    Not sure I understand Jack....

    If someone is playing a 4 bar loop in one app against a 6 bar loop in GTL then they'll go out of phase constantly and then come back again (i.e 3 four bar loops takes the same time as 2 six bar loops.. and they will start again in sync at that point.. every 12 bars.. the lowest common multiple)

    So if you switch groups at any point other than after Bar 12 they will be out of phase at the point when you switch.

    Is this what you are talking about Jack??

    I am assuming the other app does not have groups of any kind and is just playing a 4 bar phrase?

    Perhaps your "Quantum" should be set for whatever size loop the other app is using, and then GTL can cleverly calculate the lowest common multiple between the Quantum and the longest loop in the GTL group and make sure that it doesn't switch Groups until Bar 12.. (or whatever the LCM is)

    For my money the simplest way is just to turn off cue for groups in GTL and press the foot switch/screen when you're ready for it to change groups.. there could be a setting for "change groups at the end of the current bar" as well as the "change groups instantly" setting.


  • edited April 1
    ricksteruk;486" said:
    Not sure I understand Jack....

    If someone is playing a 4 bar loop in one app against a 6 bar loop in GTL then they'll go out of phase constantly and then come back again (i.e 3 four bar loops takes the same time as 2 six bar loops.. and they will start again in sync at that point.. every 12 bars.. the lowest common multiple)

    So if you switch groups at any point other than after Bar 12 they will be out of phase at the point when you switch.

    Is this what you are talking about Jack??

    I am assuming the other app does not have groups of any kind and is just playing a 4 bar phrase?

    Perhaps your "Quantum" should be set for whatever size loop the other app is using, and then GTL can cleverly calculate the lowest common multiple between the Quantum and the longest loop in the GTL group and make sure that it doesn't switch Groups until Bar 12.. (or whatever the LCM is)

    For my money the simplest way is just to turn off cue for groups in GTL and press the foot switch/screen when you're ready for it to change groups.. there could be a setting for "change groups at the end of the current bar" as well as the "change groups instantly" setting.


    Yes that's pretty much it. Imagine you are running a 4 bar group in GTL along with another app running a 4 bar loop and it's important that these are aligned. Then you switch to the next group which has 6 bars and then switch straight back to group 1. Your 4 bar loop is now out of phase by two bars.

    Like you said, the best thing to do in this situation is to turn off CUE and switch groups instantly. I like your idea of an option to switch groups after 1 bar. In fact this would be possible if group switching was to follow the "Link Quantum" setting, you could just set the quantum to 1 bar.

    I like your suggestion to find the LCM but unfortunately Ableton Link does not allow you to directly access the quantums of other apps. It is possible to tell when you are out of phase however so GTL could, in theory, just wait for the sequence to come into phase before switching groups. The down side to this is that, with certain combinations of quantums, the user could be waiting a long time for it to all come round.

    Cheers!
  • @Jack Yes we are talking about the same. The "Launch at next X bar" was the idea I point from Ableton.
  • edited April 3
    Hey guys, thanks for your input. It's great being able to get feedback straight from regular users.

    So I think the best course of action is to add an extra option to basically turn on the 'Sync Quantum' for groups. This will be located under the "Sync Quantum" selection in the "Clock Sync" settings view.

    The default behaviour of GTL will not be changed, the option is just there for those who need it.

    Hope you're all enjoying Audiobus 3, I will make sure GTL is optimised for it in this next update.

    Thanks again!
  • I still not purchased it (the midi split maybe could be useful for my workflow but I have zero budget ATM)
    I want to know what you are going to bring us @Jack !
    Meanwhile I will keep reporting spambots everyday lol

  • Meanwhile I will keep reporting spambots everyday lol
    Ha, yes thanks for that, getting a lot of them these days!

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