Live loop for a song with parts of different length

Jack

Hi @RobinHoude, so in CUE mode you use the ‘divide’ and ‘times’ clock buttons to increase/decrease the loop length before you start recording.

When recording without CUE your first loop will define the tempo of the session. To do this make sure you are in ‘Manual Tempo’ mode by turning off CUE, metronome, drummer and Ableton Link. The clock display should read ‘Manual Tempo’. Tap once to start recording and tap again to stop and start playing, just like a conventional loop pedal. The tempo is determined by the length of the loop. In Manual Tempo mode GTL will try to guess the number of bars you intended in your first loop. To set this manually use the ‘times’ and ‘divide’ clock buttons before you start recording. After you’ve set the tempo with your first loop any further recordings will round to the nearest whole bar.

If using Manual Tempo mode make sure you record something to the master group. This way you will be able to keep in time when switching between groups.

RobinHoude

make sure you record something to the master group

That's the part I was missing. Thank you.

Still, it would be nice to use the drummer as the master loop. Is there a way to do this?

Jack

@RobinHoude said:

make sure you record something to the master group

That's the part I was missing. Thank you.

Still, it would be nice to use the drummer as the master loop. Is there a way to do this?

Hmmm, when recording to a new group the drummer should keep playing and the recording should be a multiple of the clock bar length. Maybe this is a bug, I'll take a look.

RobinHoude

Jack,

I made some tests and It is very hard (I mean almost impossible for me at least) to record different parts without glitch between parts when "cue" is not activated and using the Blueboard. I also encounter this problem for just one loop in manual mode. Maybe there is a latency with the Blueboard/iPad. I have a Line 6 JM4 looper (only one loop) and I don't have this problem.

If cue is activated, I don't ear any glitches but all the parts must be of same length.

Here is a suggestion :

Add a "quantization" cue mode
Set the number of measures to the shortest part (or a fraction of the parts ). Ex : 2 measures
Then, while recording to a group, if you press stop or record to another group the looper will continue to record on the same loop until it reaches the end of the 2 remaining measures (or whatever quantization you selected) then it will stop or record to the other group.

So to record a song with parts of different length, you just have to press just before the beginning of a new part.

What do you think?

Jack

@RobinHoude said: Jack,

I made some tests and It is very hard (I mean almost impossible for me at least) to record different parts without glitch between parts when "cue" is not activated and using the Blueboard. I also encounter this problem for just one loop in manual mode. Maybe there is a latency with the Blueboard/iPad. I have a Line 6 JM4 looper (only one loop) and I don't have this problem.

There shouldn't be significant latency when using the blueboard. You should be able to make very accurate loops in Manual Tempo mode. Are you using Audiobus/AUM or is GTL standalone?

If you have the time to make a short video with your phone then that will help me understand exactly what you are experiencing. My email is info@grouptheloop.com

If cue is activated, I don't ear any glitches but all the parts must be of same length.

Here is a suggestion :

Add a "quantization" cue mode

Set the number of measures to the shortest part (or a fraction of the parts ). Ex : 2 measures

Then, while recording to a group, if you press stop or record to another group the looper will continue to record on the same loop until it reaches the end of the 2 remaining measures (or whatever quantization you selected) then it will stop or record to the other group.

So to record a song with parts of different length, you just have to press just before the beginning of a new part.

What do you think?

You should be able to easily achieve parts of different lengths with the current version of GTL so maybe something isn't quite right here. Are you trying to record parts with a different number of bars or with different tempos?

RobinHoude

I think I found the problem. I had the "Bank change" mode enabled on the Blueboard so I guess the midi event is only sent when I release the button.

I tried without this mode enabled and it's a lot easier to achieve smooth transition.

Still without this mode enabled, you only have 4 midi events to control the powerful GTL with the Blueboard so It's limited in what you can do.

I guess It's back to

P1 : record/overdub P2 : play stop P3 : group++ P4 : Group--

My suggestion in my last post would be very interesing...

Jack

Ah I see, yep that makes sense.

I like the quantised CUE mode idea. Can you elaborate on it a little? Currently there are two main ways to create sections of different lengths (not tempo) in GTL.

1. With CUE turned on: Set the clock to the desired number of bars and tap an empty loop in a new group. The new recording will start after the current group has finished playing.

2. With CUE turned off: Wait until the bar you would like to start recording then tap an empty loop in the next group. The groups will switch straight away and recording will begin instantly. Tap again when you would like to stop recording. The new loop will be rounded to the nearest whole bar to keep it nicely quantised so it doesn't matter if you tap just before or after the beat.

There is actually an option in the settings called 'Sync Quantum'. This is for keeping loops in phase with other apps although it also effects when the groups switch over. e.g if set to 4 bars, groups will switch after 4 bars rather than after the longest loop. Is this similar to your 'quantised' CUE mode?

Thanks for your help.

RobinHoude

On the quantised cue mode:

say you have a verse of 2 bars, a 6 bar chorus and a 4 bar bridge
you set the bar length to 2 and the cue mode to "quantized" or whatever name you like (this could be the same button that cycles trough 3 modes: off-grey, on-green, quantized-yellow)
you press record on group1, there is a count down and you start recording the verse
After playing for about 1.75 bar (or anytime between 0 and 2 bars), you press record on group2
Exactly at 2 bars, GTL switches the recording from g1 to g2
After playing about 4.25 of the chorus (or anytime between 4 and 6 bars) you press record on g3
Exactly at 6 bars, GTL switches the recording from g2 to g3
At 2.25, you press stop and GTL record to the end of the bridge (4 bars) on g3

This feature would allow the use of the Blueboard with bank change mode enabled because it does not require very precise midi events.

I tried the "sync quantum" setting. It does not seem to have the same behavior. As a matter of fact, I tried with different settings (1, 4, 6 bars, etc) and it does not seems to quantize to these settings. Also, the start of the recording is a problem since there is no count down if cue is not enabled so it's impossible with the Blueboard to start at the right time if bank change is enabled

For what you explain in 2), when the Bank change mode is disabled on the Blueboard, it works fine but again, I only have acces to 4 midi events.

Thank you so much for your time!

Jack

Ah I got you, yes that's quite different to just changing the 'sync quantum'. I'm not sure I will be able to introduce a quantised CUE mode in the near future as it seems like quite a big change.

There are however a few smaller changes I could more make to the current features of GTL. E.g. 'CUE in' and 'CUE out' options, I think loopy has something similar. Basically, in CUE mode, you could disable 'CUE out' and manually punch out the recording instead. Then you CUE in to a recording/group change but manually mark the end of the loop.The duration of the loop would be rounded/quantised to the nearest measure. Let me know if you think that would help?

One more option, if I added a MIDI function to change binding sets, you could apply this as a HOLD command on pedal 4. Then you could cycle through MIDI sets rather than banks on the blueboard.

janosax

BlueBoard has three modes, proprietary mode with PC/CC using BlueBoard app, and mode 1 and 2 using BTLE and midi notes or CC without using the app. To use mode 2 midi notes, hold button 2 while powering on the BlueBoard. You should have a much lower latency, around 10 ms, proprietary mode is useless for looping, I haven’t tried mode 2 CC perhaps it works too. Latest firmware is needed, you will perhaps need to upgrade depending on when you bought the unit. It’s in the manual :)

https://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/irigblueboard/index.php?p=manuals

RobinHoude

@Jack the midi function to change the binding sets would be great. Still I wish some day you implement the quantized cue mode

@janosax Last time I tried to update my Blueboard, there was a bug with their server. I'll try again soon.

janosax

@RobinHoude have you already tried to hold button 2 while powering on, and to then midi learn in GTL to see what happened? I’ve seen that issue with their updater too.

RobinHoude

@janosax yes, I tried it, I have the old firmware though I just bought my Blueboard

RobinHoude

Maybe I'm missing something. I would like to perform a whole song using only my midi pedal (without touching the iPad). The problem is that if I use the Cue mode, every part are the same length. If I don't use the cue mode, it's nearly impossible to perfectly sync with the tempo (at least for me and my Blueboard).

Is there a way to quantize the start/stop of loops to a measure or a fraction of a measure?

Thanks