GTL updates and AUV3 version

dubbylabby

What do you imagine for a GTL AUv3 version? Please share your thoughts…

Jack

That’s what LoopUnit is going to be. It will basically be an AUv3 effect version of GTL pro. Minus the input mixer and the ability to host other AUv3 effects.

Yes please share any thoughts.

janosax

I haven’t think too much about it yet.

It should stay user friendly and intuitive like GTL already is, which is one of its main strength. This doesn’t mean it’s not also already a deep app full of capabilities, but quite often adding tons of complex functionality can lead to make an app which slow down or brake creativity.

For example adding some advanced audio editing capabilities can be interesting but must be integrated a way it merges well with the rest of the app and not interfere with global interface/standard use.

Loopunit and GTL Pro should both keep all those nice midi actions including complex custom ones.

Also, some ideas:

- More loops in a group of course.
- Built in follow actions in the group (can be set without midi actions), and even groups in a group with follow actions for this subgroup only. See Ableton. That can helps making random variations of a percussion for example.
-Groups are already mutually exclusive, loops could also be in subgroups, but also per loops line: example if all loops 1 in all groups are drums, they could be mutually exclusive in their own horizontal subgroup with why not follow actions too. Again see Ableton.
- reverse playing of a loop, with midi action
- midi loops, with midi routing for Loopunit and AUV3 instruments hosting for GTL Pro. Midi import/export and piano roll. Just like Ableton, nobody has really made it in one single app on iPad yet.
-sequencer with timeline, look still on Ableton way to manage this.
-audio editor with advanced capabilities.
-GTL Pro mixer with advanced routing features like AUM or Ableton, and VERY important: snapshots, both channels and full mixer, including AUV3 states. Built in automation per group or loop, or even timeline.

Again, if some features are too long to implement or too difficult or if app can loose too much simplicity or stability, it should be avoided. I prefer an app which makes something more simple but really well, than something too complex and full of bugs or unintuitive. It’s a looper first, becoming a bit more dawish doesn’t mean it should become a full heavy daw!!

Mixing audio and midi is a true need in looping. See this workflow video I made a few days ago, with full song made in real time in less than 10 mn in AUM with 4Pockets apps:

https://youtu.be/jSlr2AAqCdI

dubbylabby

IMHO the easiest path to achieve what you want/need could be improve audio recorder GTL functionality (and click/drummer track).

Audio recorder should have multiple lines/tracks and some kind of markers (cue song parts) Click/drummer track should have song mode (think in a groovebox) with chainable patterns and midi control of these patterns. Editor will be handy but something like sdrum pedal maybe will be more useful.

https://youtu.be/U8E1poBX_uA

Dedicated mixer/bus/fx system outside the slots. ATM is useful but the whole metaphor seems working against multitracking management on timeline.

About slot choke and so… I will suggest keep the channel count low (8 audio looping tracks) and maybe main group apart. Midi track for click/drummer should be a thing it’s own. Then grow from there in complexity. Midi looping has it’s own drawbacks (all in my Humble opinion of course)

Garageband drummer based on sdrum could be like trio+ band pedal iPad version. https://youtu.be/dmFuL1yAglM

https://youtu.be/JC2eu03_oxY

OTOH @[deleted] Did you tried lumbeat apps? What you are performing in the video is faster and more powerful from the combo of iBassist and some drummer and you can link those with actual GTL (or anything). It’s the most powerful arranger (think in ketrons) I have found. It’s like Trio+ but with midi/audio export (digitech pedals are a bit limited).

https://youtu.be/jCa9XAjnUtY

Another option could be Beatbuddy pedal.

https://youtu.be/GnaQnn24I-M

janosax

@dubbylabby that’s interesting but not what I’m searching for, I’m more after real-time composition and not automatic arrangers/notes generators. So midi tools all the way. If not in GTL it will perhaps be something like GTL + LK. I don’t want a powerful note generation, I want my own notes, aka my own groove and own feeling. That doesn’t mean I don’t use samples or generative stuff. And I’m not in hardware devices, much more in iPad. I want all in one compact and mobile solution, iOS has been rock solid and very capable all those years for me, for what I wanted/want to achieve. My video above is not live music, just a composition demo with 4Pockets apps. That is not exactly like my usual looping stuff using GTL.

Jack

@janosax said: I haven’t think too much about it yet.

It should stay user friendly and intuitive like GTL already is, which is one of its main strength. This doesn’t mean it’s not also already a deep app full of capabilities, but quite often adding tons of complex functionality can lead to make an app which slow down or brake creativity.

For example adding some advanced audio editing capabilities can be interesting but must be integrated a way it merges well with the rest of the app and not interfere with global interface/standard use.

Loopunit and GTL Pro should both keep all those nice midi actions including complex custom ones. That's the plan and more hopefully.

Also, some ideas:

More loops in a group of course. Yep, it's more of a dynamic layout so you can just keep adding loops. Well as many as your device can handle.

Built in follow actions in the group (can be set without midi actions), and even groups in a group with follow actions for this subgroup only. See Ableton. That can helps making random variations of a percussion for example. Good idea!

-Groups are already mutually exclusive, loops could also be in subgroups, but also per loops line: example if all loops 1 in all groups are drums, they could be mutually exclusive in their own horizontal subgroup with why not follow actions too. Again see Ableton. Cool idea, not sure how I'd do that with the current work flow. Maybe a tagging system where you assign a tag (e.g drums) which then lays the loops out in a logical order. This could be a good addition in a later update.

reverse playing of a loop, with midi action Yeh I'll do this, it's been asked for awhile. I wonder wether it should actually run the playhead in reverse or simply render the reverse effect in the background/offline. I suspect the former would be best.

midi loops, with midi routing for Loopunit and AUV3 instruments hosting for GTL Pro. Midi import/export and piano roll. Just like Ableton, nobody has really made it in one single app on iPad yet. I'd love to do this! It's a big job though, different mechanics entirely. It strikes me as an add-on or a later update.

-sequencer with timeline, look still on Ableton way to manage this. This is not in the design however I've always wanted to add a playback sequencer. Maybe a drag and drop system to play a particular sequence of groups, trigger records etc.

-audio editor with advanced capabilities. Yep that will happen.

-GTL Pro mixer with advanced routing features like AUM or Ableton, and VERY important: snapshots, both channels and full mixer, including AUV3 states. Built in automation per group or loop, or even timeline. This will be the main feature of GTL Pro. The starting state will be similar to GTL however have the ability to be much more complex. There will be two levels, the input mixer and the channel mixer. The input mixer will sum physical audio inputs and Auv3 instruments to mix busses. Then on the channel mixer you select the loop's input, this could be one of the input busses, and the loops volume pan and output. Both the input and channel mixer will allow you to add effects.

Again, if some features are too long to implement or too difficult or if app can loose too much simplicity or stability, it should be avoided. I prefer an app which makes something more simple but really well, than something too complex and full of bugs or unintuitive. It’s a looper first, becoming a bit more dawish doesn’t mean it should become a full heavy daw!! I agree!

Mixing audio and midi is a true need in looping. See this workflow video I made a few days ago, with full song made in real time in less than 10 mn in AUM with 4Pockets apps: Agreed.

dubbylabby

@janosax said: @dubbylabby that’s interesting but not what I’m searching for, I’m more after real-time composition and not automatic arrangers/notes generators. So midi tools all the way. If not in GTL it will perhaps be something like GTL + LK. I don’t want a powerful note generation, I want my own notes, aka my own groove and own feeling. That doesn’t mean I don’t use samples or generative stuff. And I’m not in hardware devices, much more in iPad. I want all in one compact and mobile solution, iOS has been rock solid and very capable all those years for me, for what I wanted/want to achieve. My video above is not live music, just a composition demo with 4Pockets apps. That is not exactly like my usual looping stuff using GTL.

Gotcha! I will love ro see a real world performance then!

For my needs it will be great any addition in any field (but keeping stability on top priority list) but I can do what I need nowadays. I’m a lucky one I suppose :blush:

Keep sharing please!

dubbylabby

How is going @Jack ?

Jack

Thanks for asking. Still beavering away, as you can imagine it’s a long process. I’ve built GTL pro from scratch to ensure it’s super stable and future proof.

So far we have a working looping environment with recording, playback and group switching. So the basics are in place. Audio editor is underway. I’d guess I’m 25% there.

dubbylabby

💪🏼 Stay strong!

Thanks for share ❤️

Ben

@Jack, would love to be involved with beta testing when the time comes. Any chance you could give us an idea what the audio editor will look like?

Jack

Thanks Ben, it’ll be a while before I get the beta out but will let you know when it’s close.

The editor will be a large waveform display with left and right locators to adjust the punch in/out points. Dragging left or right will shift the the entire loop position. There will be clip gain, possibly some basic effects such as reverse. I’m toying with adding flex timing so we can drag transients in time. Maybe a future update.

Suggestion welcome.

dubbylabby

Any news? How are all of you? @janosax @Jack

Jack

Hey @dubbylabby. I hope you’re well. I’m still working on it, not had much time recently but getting back into it now. It’s a big project! I’d love to get something out this year, we shall see!

dubbylabby

Nice!

janosax

Hi @Jack! Any news on those new things? When I want a looper that does proper grouping I still wish yours was AUV3!!!! The best. LPP acts weird and inappropriately sometimes for Abletonesque looping behavior.

Jack

Yeh still plodding away when I get time. I will try and upload some screenshots of GTL pro at some point.

At the moment the AUv3 version (LoopUnit) will do everything the main app will do other than input mixing and hosting other AUv3 effects. I'm not sure how this will play out in the real world but we will see.

Thanks for your support!

janosax

Cool can’t wait!!! We need diversity.

dubbylabby

The iPhone versiom as AUv3 could be nice (even a simplified version). LPP is nice but not my cup of tea (even it has implemented my ideas about colour grouping and bussing) but not so suitable for build structured songs as GTL or predefined layout to use as default, just dawless and madness.

What I will love for GTL pro will be dedicated output by layer or selectable (and I will do it that way) since for me each layer is a channel (bass, drums, accompaniament, vocals) and each group a song part (intro, chorus, verse, etc) and AU inserts and touch interaction isn’t very intuitive (my idea was to use a midi controller for everything but lack of native multiple controller support makes me wonder about options with classic 5pin midi). Since I’m not doing music at all I’m just sharing thoughts (far away from anynkind of rant ;) )

Related to “Arrangement view” LPP is still a child and the roadmap seems still focused on that dawless approach so I will prefer GTL pro adding more classic approach to keep the song structure approach. In the end who wants dawless and madness has LPP almost but for songwritters the nearest intellingent looper at the moment is GTL (or boring karaoke-like apps without looping or scene control). I have considered even go back to RC loopers (or Ableton) because these do less things (maybe) but they do it right and “plugnplay”. I did some experiments with LPP but isn’t intuitive at all and I don’t want to expend my few musicking time trying to understand a powerful tool without proper starters. I left Ableton&max (also pure data) for that reason…

Just dreaming I know… probably I will end buying a ketron + hardware looper and just sync them with old 5pin midi.

Ps: Merry Xmas everyone (I don’t know when I could connect next time so…)

dubbylabby

I found (at audiobus sale megathread) one app showing the issue and solution described in my last comment. Maybe there’s some inspiration for possible features for GTL pro in this field…
https://www.mak-apps.com/
https://www.mak-apps.com/live-chopz