I have confusion about setting up different group lengths!

Hi, I just posted a feature request related to this, but after searching some similar forum topics, I realise I don't understand how this app works, regarding recording options.

Perhaps it would be best if I asked specifically how I should set it up to do the following:

I have a song, section A is 4 bars long, and I'd repeat it a few times and solo over it. Then I'd progress to: Section B which is 5 bars long, and only ever plays once, and always leads straight into...
Section C, which is 12 bars long. So I'd have to go out of recording section B straight into recording section C.

I would then go would then go back to section A the first time, maybe to section B later in the song. and overdub or just solo over those parts. I want to be able to play to a set tempo, possibly from a drum app etc..

I realised I didn't know how to set up individual group lengths for all the sections properly, so I'm misunderstanding something.

I read some forum topics about turning CUE off, but is there any way to do this while still syncing to a tempo? I see I can use manual tempo, but I'll have to rely on GTL getting my tempo correctly from my first loop. I'm not sure yet how reliable this will be. In this mode, do subsequent groups sync to the bars established by that tempo? They are not in total free time? And I would manually start (and stop) recording before the beginning (and end) of each section?

Is there is a way to do this, either by defining different group lengths, or by not using group lengths but doing manual starts and stops, that would sync with the tempo without me having to have extremely accurate button pressing skills.

I'm afraid I don't really understand the multiply divide situation, other than multiplying the lengths of layers within a group...

Thanks!

Comments

  • Hi again @SimonSomeone,

    The easiest way is with CUE turned on. When cue is turned on you set the length of your loop before you record it. So say you want to record a 4 bar loop, set the clock to 4 bars with the ‘times’ button and then record your loop. Then if you want a loop with 8 bars repeat these steps but first set the clock to 8 bars. You do not set the length of a group, the loops in a group can all be different lengths and switching between groups will occur after the longest loop playing.

    Another approach is to turn CUE off, if you are recording along to a drum beat from another app then you simply punch recording in and out to set the number of bars for a loop. This is called ‘Instant recording’ mode and should be indicated in the clock view at the top on the screen. Yes loops will automatically be truncated or extended to sync perfectly with the tempo. Of course you will need to enable Ableton Link to sync to other apps.

    If you would like to set the tempo manually then you need to make sure Ableton Link is not connected and the CUE button is turned off. You will the ‘manual tempo’ written in the clock view at the top. Then just punch in/your first loop to set the tempo (like a conventional loop pedal). After you have set the tempo with the first loop then subsequent loops all sync automatically to the session tempo with the ‘instant recording’ mode described above.
  • Ok thanks for your help, I'll try that out.

  • Hi,

    I've been playing around a bit more and find for me it's best to have no cue or count in, and just do the manual recording. My methodology is to set Lumbeat 'Soft Drummer' playing, then record a further 'guitar percussion' loop in the master track, then shift to group 1 and start recording the song sections. I am using only the iPhone version currently , along with a foot pedal midi controller, and have come across few things I can't find the answer to.

    I have foot switch buttons mapped to record/overdub, previous group, next group, previous loop, next loop. I have 16 buttons available so I can assign a few more if need be!

    1. I find the 'next/previous loop' buttons outline the individual loops with orange. One question I have is that I can't seem to move or remove that directly on my phone screen, only with the midi commands. I have had issues were I've pressed a loop on screen, revealing the import or record icons come up, but if I then hit record on my foot pedal it will record not on that track but on the one which still has an orange outline around it, which is often in another group. I'm just a bit unclear as to how these things relate, as there seems to be nothing about the midi controls in the documentation. If there's more documentation I haven't seen I'd be happy to read it.

    2. I expected that I'd be able to press 'next group', then 'record', and start recording in the first slot of the next group, but I see now I have to advance the loops themselves with (usually) 4 foot presses. So the +-groups and +-loops controls don't interact in that way? I'm not sure what the function of the 'previous/next group' controls are in that case. Maybe if i map a 'play' command to my footpedal, I would be able to switch between groups on playback that way? I guess I'll see if that works

    3. In this manual mode of recording, is there a way to jump from recording a loop in one group to recording a loop in another, without the first loop playing back while I frantically press buttons? I'm not able to try right now, but if I record something in loop 1 of group 1, can I advance (while I'm recording) with 'next loop' commands to loop 1 of group 2, then at the appropriate time hit 'record', hopefully closing the first loop and starting recording of the loop in the next group? Or do I have to close the first loop before attempting to record the next?

    4. I see you can assign multiple commands to one midi command (I accidentally did this at first thinking I was setting up individual ones). Perhaps some multiple set of commands might help me out here?

    I really like this app. Initially I was excited about it, then a bit disappointed as it didn't work as I expected, but I'm becoming more excited again as I play with it. Some more documentation for us 'RTFM' types would be good :)

    thanks, Simon

  • edited October 22

    @SimonSomeone said:
    Hi,

    I've been playing around a bit more and find for me it's best to have no cue or count in, and just do the manual recording. My methodology is to set Lumbeat 'Soft Drummer' playing, then record a further 'guitar percussion' loop in the master track, then shift to group 1 and start recording the song sections. I am using only the iPhone version currently , along with a foot pedal midi controller, and have come across few things I can't find the answer to.

    Hi Simon, that's the way I do it :)

    I have foot switch buttons mapped to record/overdub, previous group, next group, previous loop, next loop. I have 16 buttons available so I can assign a few more if need be!

    1. I find the 'next/previous loop' buttons outline the individual loops with orange. One question I have is that I can't seem to move or remove that directly on my phone screen, only with the midi commands. I have had issues were I've pressed a loop on screen, revealing the import or record icons come up, but if I then hit record on my foot pedal it will record not on that track but on the one which still has an orange outline around it, which is often in another group. I'm just a bit unclear as to how these things relate, as there seems to be nothing about the midi controls in the documentation. If there's more documentation I haven't seen I'd be happy to read it.

    MIDI loop selection is completely independent to interaction on the device's screen. There are some advantages to this of course, to be able to do one thing on the screen and another on the foot pedal. I see your point, it would be handy to be able to select the loop on the screen although this is not possible at the moment.

    1. I expected that I'd be able to press 'next group', then 'record', and start recording in the first slot of the next group, but I see now I have to advance the loops themselves with (usually) 4 foot presses. So the +-groups and +-loops controls don't interact in that way? I'm not sure what the function of the 'previous/next group' controls are in that case. Maybe if i map a 'play' command to my footpedal, I would be able to switch between groups on playback that way? I guess I'll see if that works

    The key here is to change the MIDI function's 'Loop:' option to 'Selected Group, Loop 1' on the Record/Overdub function. This will allow you to record a specific loop in the current selected Group. So if you select the next group via MIDI then you will record to loop 1 in that group. This makes it really easy to record straight to a new group. I'd recommend at least 6 foot pedals for this though. 4 for each loop in a group and 2 to select the next and previous groups.

    1. In this manual mode of recording, is there a way to jump from recording a loop in one group to recording a loop in another, without the first loop playing back while I frantically press buttons? I'm not able to try right now, but if I record something in loop 1 of group 1, can I advance (while I'm recording) with 'next loop' commands to loop 1 of group 2, then at the appropriate time hit 'record', hopefully closing the first loop and starting recording of the loop in the next group? Or do I have to close the first loop before attempting to record the next?

    Yes you should be able to immediately start recording to group 2 after recording to group 1. The key is whether you can select the loop in time. With the method I explained above it should only be a question of 2 presses on your foot pedal. (e.g. 'Select next group' -> 'Record/Overdub' with the 'Selected Group, Loop 1' option). I hope that makes sense.

    1. I see you can assign multiple commands to one midi command (I accidentally did this at first thinking I was setting up individual ones). Perhaps some multiple set of commands might help me out here?

    Yes maybe but I'd try the above first. Keep it simple :)

    I really like this app. Initially I was excited about it, then a bit disappointed as it didn't work as I expected, but I'm becoming more excited again as I play with it. Some more documentation for us 'RTFM' types would be good :)

    Glad to hear it. Yes sorry the manual is pretty limited at the moment. I'm hoping to add to it over time, do post here or email me if you have any more questions.

    thanks, Simon

  • Hi Jack,

    Thanks for this. I'd never seen that option to specify which loop in a group, I'll have to investigate further. I've since had some more time to experiment, and I found a different, less elegant solution that also worked... I stacked up a midi command with 4 'select next loop' commands, all in a row on one foot press. I wasn't sure it would work, but it did! This works fine for me as I mostly like to set up a some base structure for each group before embellishing with extra layers, so it's always 4 presses to the 1st layer in each group. I'll look at doing it the official way though. I have plenty of buttons to play with as I converted a Korg Nanopad to a foot controller (purely mechanically), so I have 16 buttons to play with.

    I saw there are also 2 options for connecting commands, I'm unsure of the difference precisely, but the + option worked for, the arrow option didn't.

    I also saw that I could use the 'previous/next group' command with a button assigned to 'play' so thats made it easier to switch between sections.

    One question, there's a 'select loop' option as well as select previous and next. There always seems to be one loop selected anyway, so I'm wondering what that is for.

    Plus a minor feature request I'll just drop here, or maybe I've missed how to do it... it would be good to be able to remap a midi command to a different controller. I accidentally mapped my next loop combo to the same button as reset, and couldn't find a way to remap it other than deleting a command and starting again.

    Thanks again for your input and prompt replies!

  • edited October 23

    @SimonSomeone said:
    Hi Jack,

    Thanks for this. I'd never seen that option to specify which loop in a group, I'll have to investigate further. I've since had some more time to experiment, and I found a different, less elegant solution that also worked... I stacked up a midi command with 4 'select next loop' commands, all in a row on one foot press. I wasn't sure it would work, but it did! This works fine for me as I mostly like to set up a some base structure for each group before embellishing with extra layers, so it's always 4 presses to the 1st layer in each group. I'll look at doing it the official way though. I have plenty of buttons to play with as I converted a Korg Nanopad to a foot controller (purely mechanically), so I have 16 buttons to play with.

    Haha, glad you've come up with a solution.

    I saw there are also 2 options for connecting commands, I'm unsure of the difference precisely, but the + option worked for, the arrow option didn't.

    The first option 'Instant' will trigger all the functions at the same time. The second 'step' will cycle through each function each time you press the midi controller button.

    I also saw that I could use the 'previous/next group' command with a button assigned to 'play' so thats made it easier to switch between sections.

    One question, there's a 'select loop' option as well as select previous and next. There always seems to be one loop selected anyway, so I'm wondering what that is for.

    So 'Select loop' will always select a particular loop which you have assigned. For example, this could be loop 1 in group 1.

    Plus a minor feature request I'll just drop here, or maybe I've missed how to do it... it would be good to be able to remap a midi command to a different controller. I accidentally mapped my next loop combo to the same button as reset, and couldn't find a way to remap it other than deleting a command and starting again.

    First tap on the binding in question to bring up the view where you assign the functions etc. Then just press the new button/foot pedal on your MIDI controller and it should replace the previous assigned command.

    Thanks again for your input and prompt replies!

  • Great, thanks. There's more flexibility and control than I realised in the midi control assignments :)

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